To: bgip@[.NoSpamBots].pissedoff.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Your ****** Page
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:31:17 PDT
 

>From: S. H. <scott@******>
>Subject: Re: Your ****** Page
>In-Reply-To: <19980411173042.21384.qmail@hotmail.com> from Mark Zeman
at "Apr 11, 98 10:30:41 am"
>To: m_zeman@[.NoSpamBots].hotmail.com (Mark Zeman)
>Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:50:22 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Hi Mark,
>       I spoke to Geocities again, and the other providers that had pages
>of the GC webring.  All of the other pages have been removed and the
>Webring is about to be deleted.  You are right, this is sad, they choose
>to enforce the law when it suits them.  I talked with my lawyer and he
>said it would be best and safest if you dropped it totally.  Here's the reason,
>       You mention that GC removed pages based on religious, cultural, sex
>basis, which may be true, but you can't prove it.  Now, if they sue you
>for slander, they can easily prove that out of the 30 million webpages
>on their site, there are X number of cultural, religous, sex pages. Even
>if those pages are there because they never found them before, this allows
>them to prove you slandered them.  Like I always say, 'who ever has the most
>money will win'.  If you chose to put your pages back up you would have
>to remove those statements to protect yourself, and not even hint at the
>provider you are talking about.
>       The only thing that is left is newsgroups.  Forget about webpages,
>far more people read newsgroups, and you can post from an anonymous newsgroup
>account, make one up at www.dejanews.com.  You will find related newsgroups
>to post to.  You can even go as far as to make a newsgroup, there is no way
>GC can have a newsgroup removed.  (and if they can, there is something
>severely wrong.. well, there already is).  Consipiracy newsgroups would
>be perfect for this.
>
>       This reminds me of when Microsoft sued IBM over some little piece
>of code.  All IBM did was release every piece of information on that
>code, IBM released 10 000 new pages of documents every day for 10 years
>until Microsoft just gave up, they couldn't afford to keep the case alive.
>GC can do something very similar, if they do try to sue you, even if it
>never gets to court, they can keep the pre-court precedings stretched out
>over such a long period of time that it will cost you hundreds of thousands
>of dollars.
>
>       But, as I believe, what goes around comes around.  GC has gone too far,
>I have had friends kicked off GC for no reason before and had letters from
>their lawyers send to them.  GC will get what they deserve, it may not be
>for 3 or 5 or 10 years, but the day will come.  The have done this to
>so many people.
>
>Good luck.  Do you wish me to remove the geocensor account? You can sign
>up for a new one.
>
>scott
>
>> Scott,
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know about Canada's law and Geo's intentions. That
>> was quick, the page's been up maybe 48 hours and I'm already an outlaw.
>> If they are going to get this serious about things I may be better off
>> just not bothering, because I don't have a lot of money to burn on
>> lawyers.
>> I was wondering, would something like Geoc*ties or GC (initials only) be
>> within legal limits? I've seen people doing this before to stay in line
>> with trademark laws in the States, but don't know how it works out
>> internationally. Another question, is 'GeoCensored' really illegal to
>> put on the page? I can't believe Geo has copyrighted this, and if
>> anything I've had it long before them, and www.leatheronline.org has had
>> it long before me. It's sad how easy it is for them to get their way.
>> (Also funny that they can selectively forbid the use of their name on
>> some sites, and *require* it on others...)
>> I'm all ears at this point. I'd like to keep the page and the Webring,
>> but since it's based mainly on GC I'll either have to expand it to
>> general censorship everywhere, or else just give up. Let me know if you
>> know of any loopholes.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> >From scott@****** Thu Apr  9 11:42:48 1998
>> >Subject: Your ****** Page
>> >To: m_zeman@[NoSpamBots].hotmail.com
>> >Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:40:08 -0400 (EDT)
>> >
>> >Greetings,
>> >    You seem to be very popular, I got a call from Geocities about
>> >your webpage.  I have looked at your page, you will notice that your
>> page
>> >seems to be gone right now, it's not, I made a backup copy of it before
>> >I put up the 'this page is being investigated' page.
>> >    As you probably know, ****** is in Canada, here it is illegal
>> >to post someones name (even company name) without their permission, and
>> >to do it in such a way that it might cause the named party to receive
>> >harassing email is even worse.  So, unfortunately your page did break
>> >Canadian law which is why you are getting this email.  (This is not
>> >me squishing your freedom of speech)
>> >    I looked at your page and saw their name on it, but here is the
>> >kicker.  Since ****** is Canadian and Geocities is American, any
>> >lawsuit they bring against you would be an international crime, so you
>> >have to be really careful.
>> >    If you were to remove any reference to Geocities from the page
>> >then there would be nothing you would be liable for.  This would
>> include
>> >the title however, Geocensor, and the username.  I'm having my lawyer
>> >go over the page to see what all has to be done to keep the page within
>> >legal limits.
>> >    I'm not sure about links (personally I think this is all legal
>> >crap), GeoCities was smart enough to trademark their name, which means
>> >you can't write GeoCities without their permission.  Simply retarded,
>> but
>> >true.
>> >
>> >    Get back to me and we'll see what we can do to get your page
>> >back online.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >Scott
>> >
>> >

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